Episode 62 - Secrets to Money and Relationship Harmony with Alyson Jones
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Nicole Garton 00:00:02 Hello and welcome to Your Estate Matters presented by Heritage Trust. Your Estate Matters is a podcast dedicated to everything estates, including building and preserving your legacy. If it's estate related, we'll be talking about it. We're having the conversations today that will help Canadians protect their families, their assets and their legacies tomorrow.
Today, we're tackling a topic that touches every couple, but that many people find surprisingly difficult to talk about money, how you and your partner communicate about finances, manage spending and saving together, and navigate disagreements about money can have a profound impact on your relationship and ultimately on your estate plan. Research consistently shows that financial disagreements are one of the leading sources of conflict and relationships. Survey suggests that at least half of all arguments between partners involve money in some way, And yet most of us were never taught about how to have these conversations. We were not given a blueprint about talking about money openly, honestly, and without blame. My guest today is one of BC's most respected therapists and an expert on exactly this subject.
Nicole Garton 00:01:15 Alyson Jones is a president and clinical director of Alyson Jones and Associates, one of the largest private consulting centers in the province. She's a registered clinical counselor with over 25 years of experience working with individuals, couples and families. She is also a mediator, a collaborative law divorce coach, a parent educator, and an adjunct faculty member at the Adler School of Professional Psychology. Alison is the author of the award winning book more A New Philosophy for Exceptional Living, which won the 2014 National Indie Excellence Award. She's a frequent media commentator, appearing regularly on CTV news, CBC, KCRW, and contributing to The Huffington Post. She has written and spoken extensively about how money, communication, and relationships intersect.
We're so excited. Thank you so much for spending some of your precious time with us and sharing all your years of wisdom and expertise with our listeners. We've known each other for years. You've spent over 25 years working with couples and family and youth. Tell me the journey and the intersection of money and relationships.
Alyson Jones 00:02:26 You know, for me and I have been working with families and couples for a very long time.
Alyson Jones 00:02:31 And money is there. It is at the intersection. There's always financial considerations when we're dealing with relationships. Money itself is a kind of construct, but it moves different products and services and things like that. But it is a powerful, powerful presence in all relationships.
Nicole Garton 00:02:51 So how common are money related conflicts amongst the families that you see, and does it only come up with certain couples or families, or is it a conflict that seems to be prevalent across many families?
Alyson Jones 00:03:05 It certainly manifests in issues in almost all relationships, like money is going to play out somewhere in there, in every relationship. Of course, there's certain times in relationships where money is going to be more of an issue, like when you're going through a big life transition or you're making a very big purchase, or you've come into an inheritance or somebody having a transition within the family, a divorce, or there's been a loss. Right. So there's certain times when it escalates, but it is a factor in pretty much all relationships. It's more about how you communicate about it.
Alyson Jones 00:03:37 It's going to be there, but it's about the communication skills to talk about these things.
Nicole Garton 00:03:42 So why do you think people find it so difficult to talk about money specifically?
Alyson Jones 00:03:47 Well, I think there's a lot of factors around what makes it difficult, right. For a lot of people, it's how were they brought up, what was their family of origin, and how was money discussed, or was it even discussed in their family? For some people, it can be seen sometimes as uncomfortable or embarrassing to talk about money or. It's very comparative and competitive talking about money. So people tend not to talk about it like even with their friends or with their families, because it could be taken in a different way and they're very sensitive. I don't want this misconstrued in some way, but like I said, it is a presence and it is there, and we do need to learn to talk about it.
Nicole Garton 00:04:23 So it seems like there's like a taboo or something. Do you want to tell us about that?
Alyson Jones 00:04:30 Yeah, there's been a taboo because historically sometimes money has been seen as almost dirty.
Alyson Jones 00:04:35 Right? You don't talk about that. You don't talk about the dirt. And because it triggers different things for people, you know, money is associated with power and it's also associated with lack of power, right? Lack of money, lack of power. And this whole sense of, well, there must be something bad then, you know, if you have money, then are you being a good person? Right. It gets right down to sort of the sense of who we are as people. And there can be some very limiting ways of looking at it. And people are carrying - this money carries a lot of energy with it. The whole conversation carries a lot of energy and a lot of history.
Nicole Garton 00:05:13 So tell me about that, because I feel that as well, working with families. What is that energy piece?
Alyson Jones 00:05:18 It's their own blueprints that were laid down when they're young. Right? That idea of “how was it handled in your own family.” But it's also how we look around in society. You know, if I have money, I'm winning.
Alyson Jones 00:05:30 If I don't have money, I'm losing. I don't want people to think I have too much money, and I don't want people to think I don't have enough money. Right? I don't want to be seen as losing, but I also don't want to be seen as vulnerable and a source of people wanting to come to me for money. Right. So it becomes all of this, and how it was discussed and handled in our families of origin is huge. And if you grew up in a family where it wasn't discussed, where people didn't talk about it or was seen as gauche or something in some kind of way improper to talk about money. A lot of people go forward in life and are making big decisions, and they really haven't had any real conversations about money.
Nicole Garton 00:06:14 People who traditionally have less power, maybe. Or I think the secrecy or the hesitancy to discuss it may inadvertently contribute to those inequities. Like we don't talk about money in salaries necessarily, but certainly traditionally women or visible minorities may in workplaces be making less than other people, and then not discussing it almost exacerbates or structurally enforces those inequities.
Nicole Garton 00:06:43 Do you think that's true?
Alyson Jones 00:06:45 I think that's very true. And I think sometimes there has been, you know, and in particular for women in the workplace, and not that long ago, we even got the vote when we really even think about it. And, you know, you don't tell. Right. And it keeps supporting the kind of power structure that exists. And sometimes it's actually kind of exciting to be, you know, a woman at this time and talking about it because it sort of challenges those traditional power structures and says, no, we are going to talk about it. I am going to have a conversation with my friends, with my family, with my children, with my parents, with my employer, you know, with my colleagues about this. And it does open things up. But it without a doubt also makes people very uncomfortable.
Nicole Garton 00:07:27 So we're talking about the concept of money and status have always been linked. And that cultural tendency to treat money talk as crass or impolite.
Nicole Garton 00:07:37 So let's talk about couples sort of in midlife or older 60s, 70s who've grown up with these norms, like the roles of women have been changing. There have been structural inequities that are changing. Like, how do you see that changing in terms of the couples you see in your office?
Alyson Jones 00:07:55 It is changing. And, you know, I think a lot of people in particular, if you're in the stage in your life where you know, you are sort of in your maybe 45 to 70 kind of stage, right? I mean, things are changing. And like when I grew up, it was not common to talk about money. You just didn't. I happened to grow up with a parent who - my mom, she'd worked in a bank, and so she would talk about it because she had a little more comfort than a lot of other people. And, you know, that was unique. But for most of my peers, it wasn't discussed at all. And now in our lives, we're having to make some big decisions, or we're going through transactions that are large, or we're going through transitions that are significant.
Alyson Jones 00:08:37 And some of us have had to stumble into finding ways to have these conversations because they are an essential part. And in particular, at this point in our lives, well, in all times in our lives, but in this times in our lives we're talking about maybe we have children in university and we're helping fund that And we're changing our homes and we're, you know, looking ahead to retirement and all of those things we have to communicate. And if you're in a couple, it's important because those are significant life events.
Nicole Garton 00:09:08 So when I talk to people in midlife, there's often an element of fear. Certainly fear of not having enough or running out, sometimes guilt or shame if they feel that they haven't earned enough. The reality is the cost of living is crushing. Particularly, we live in British Columbia where the cost of living is enormous. Salaries certainly haven't kept up with it. And, you know, I think there's a perception, certainly when we see on social media, it looks like everybody else seems fine.
Nicole Garton 00:09:39 You know, the interesting thing is with me being a family lawyer for many years, I saw everybody's tax returns and budgets and quite frankly know that most people are scrambling. So, you know, probably more visibility than the average person. So let's talk about those emotions and how you have seen that manifest and how couples and families work through that.
Alyson Jones 00:09:59 It can be a lot of emotions, right? Like I said, money is often linked with power. So if you're the person that maybe has the largest income or is carrying a lot of it, it can feel like a burden, right? Like carrying that load. And you can develop resentments against maybe your partner, who you feel isn't having to take the same level of responsibility. But on the converse, you can have that person who feels kind of disempowered and feels like they don't have the same voice and choice in the relationship because one party is making more, bringing more in, and then they feel inadequate, right? And the other person can feel inadequate and unsupported as well.
Alyson Jones 00:10:34 So those dynamics and it can lead to things like shame, right. And it can lead to things like fear. Right? Unfortunately, sometimes when we're faced with fear or the things that make us really anxious, we want to run away from that. But avoidance never makes anything better. Never. If you're dealing with financial issues, there's also the sense of being a failure, right? Like it's like, oh my goodness, I have failed. I had this good job. But it didn't translate into me being financially successful in the way I thought it would because I didn't manage it. Now I feel like I'm a failure and I'm embarrassed, right? So all of these strong feelings get evoked. And even if you feel like you are doing really well and you're successful in managing it well, then you almost feel embarrassed because you're like, oh, I don't want anybody to think I don't care about what their circumstances are.
Nicole Garton 00:11:28 One thing that seems to create a lot of friction is that people invariably marry each other that have different attitudes towards money.
Nicole Garton 00:11:35 So somebody might be more scarcity oriented or abundance oriented, or one person is a big saver, the other one's a spender, one's cautious, one wants to take risks. How do couples deal with those personalities or perspectives that differ.
Alyson Jones 00:11:52 And it's true. Often, you know, sometimes opposites attract and things like that. The thing is, that can actually be the golden ticket, right? When you have people in a relationship that have strengths that they're able to bring to the relationship, it can create a wonderful combination, right? So if you have somebody who is more of a spender and somebody who's more of a saver, you can actually help that spender kind of ground themselves a bit in security, and you can help that saver open up more to experiences in the value of experiences in life. So you really can have a fabulous combination of how you manage your money and your life experiences by bringing those two different types of people together. Now, in saying that if you're not communicating and pulling on those strengths, it can position people farther apart and it can make them embed even deeper and it can build resentments.
Alyson Jones 00:12:50 Right. Man, I can't believe he spent that again. Man, I can't believe she shot that idea down again. But if you can learn the communication skills, you know, the money skills and discussing it like that comes in some ways second to the communication skills. And one of the things I always say to people, be curious. Be curious about your partner's view on things. Be curious about their family of origin. Be curious about what they felt when they got their first paycheck. Right? Because what we want to get to is the values underneath that maybe for that person. And you ask them, what was it like when you got your first paycheck? And they talked about the feeling of independence and the feeling that they, on their own level and competency could create something that's a value that gives you information. This is very important to my partner. Independence, right. And some freedom. If it gave you that sense of security. And like, I knew I could meet my goal because I now had my first step towards meeting my goal.
Alyson Jones 00:13:49 Then you get this information about how gold ribbon your partner is and how they can plan ahead. So be curious about what each other's experiences are. If you're curious, then you can get great information. Lay a super foundation and start to do some of the next step planning.
Nicole Garton 00:14:09 So let's talk about gendered roles. So one of the things that I've seen is sometimes the male might say, oh, look at the visa every month, but she's the one doing the majority of the spending, like with the groceries and the clothes for the kids and the gifts for the in-laws and the Christmas and stuff like that. But this is patterns I've seen by a boat rider or like watches or something like, do you find that women end up often more the they're often managing more of the day to day family management, so they are often doing more of the purchases and then how that dynamic plays out, particularly because traditionally men have been the larger earners. How do you help couples work through those issues?
Alyson Jones 00:14:54 And this is where it's about getting to, you know, some transparency and comfort levels.
Alyson Jones 00:15:00 Right. And there are some maybe more, you know, dynamics and traditional dynamics. And there has been and we say the world is changing, but there's a history, right. And in history, males have tended to earn higher than women even for the same job. And so there has been more power in that. Right. But the women have been the ones often that are doing more household spendings. Right. So if those things are being done and it's not transparent, and we haven't talked about comfort levels and somebody goes and buys a boat or, you know, like that can end up really feeling like betrayals in relationship if there's secrets that are being held or if there's information that's not being shared and transparent, if you kind of know what your comfort zone is. Right. Like, hey, we can review the monthly spending and talk about it and we can save towards that bigger purchase. It is that transparency that's actually going to make all the other elements work and come together.
Nicole Garton 00:15:54 So let's talk about income differences.
Nicole Garton 00:15:56 So one partner makes significantly more than the other. You know, often the woman has left the workforce, is doing child rearing, maybe caregiving for parents. How does that impact the power dynamic around money and families?
Alyson Jones 00:16:11 Well, it can really impact, you know, you can end up with one partner feeling very disempowered. And one partner may be feeling overly burdened. Right. And in a relationship, you need to feel respected. You need to feel valued, right? So if you have one partner that's taking over saying, well, I earn our income, so I should be the decision maker, that is not a basis of respect. Couples do really need to talk about their values. And if they make decisions together, saying that one partner is going to draw back or maybe work part time if they're working or earn less, you know that they're still approaching their financial health as a family collectively and looking at it collectively, because when it becomes theirs or mine, it can separate people further.
Nicole Garton 00:17:00 So let's get practical.
Nicole Garton 00:17:02 So say a couple knows they need to improve their communication around money. How do they get started? What do good conversations about money look like?
Alyson Jones 00:17:10 One of the very first things is you don't want to start it in anything that appears as if it's an attack, right? You might have concerns you want to discuss, but if you are approaching your partner to open up a conversation, it needs to be done in a way that's not going to evoke a defensive response from them. I often talk about Good News Sandwich, and what I say about that is start with something positive. Have the meat in the middle and end with something positive. So start with something positive in the sense of saying, you know, I really value that we can communicate about these things. And I really like to hear your input on stuff. And, you know, there's so many things where we've been great partners and working together. Then you start to move into, you know, but I'm feeling a little bit like I don't have my eye on this and I'm not getting all the information I need.
Alyson Jones 00:17:57 Right. So you start to get into the meat of it. Right. So do it in that way. But also I really highly recommend try to create regular times to talk about financial health goals. Dreams make it fun. You can talk about the dreams, the holiday you want to take, but try to do it more regularly and not just crisis based. Because if it's a crisis based conversation, they tend to not go that well. And if you really want to increase the health of how you're talking to your partner about money and finances, goals, future aspirations, you need to do it in a way that has an approachability and regularity. So I often recommend people do monthly check in, make it kind of fun, you know, go to the coffee shop or something and get a coffee and just kind of pull out your phones and talk about it, because all our information is on our phones now and kind of set a goal, set in intention. And then for the big things. Bring in a financial advisor.
Alyson Jones 00:18:55 It's fabulous to have somebody neutral and who has your interests at heart, leading some of the conversations that you don't know how to lead, right? If you're struggling and it is an issue and they are blocking the relationship, go see a counselor, because those communication skills are still going to be one of the most valuable things when it comes to talking about money.
Nicole Garton 00:19:18 So you've talked about the importance of not just talking about numbers, but what it means to every person. Like, can you expand on that a little bit?
Alyson Jones 00:19:25 Well, money has symbolism to people, right? And we all have our own unique footprint in this world and what we grew up with and what we saw, and of course, our own unique perspective. Right. And so it means different things to different people. And finding out what it means to you? You know, sometimes we don't know because we're just not conscious of it. So kind of examining your own values around it. Do you feel you're more security based? Do you feel you're more experiential? That money's a means to an end to an experience, or is it a bit of a game right where it's like, I'm going to invest this and I'm going to make this much, and I'm going to do that.
Alyson Jones 00:19:59 For some people, it's a game, right? For some people, it's power, right? And a choice. Right? For some people, if I have money, I have choice, right? So finding out those underlying values and what the symbols are is really important.
Nicole Garton 00:20:16 Let's talk about the power piece. So I've read that if there is physical or emotional abuse in a relationship there's often financial abuse. Is that true?
Alyson Jones 00:20:26 Yeah. It's interesting. And because you know some themes kind of go throughout a relationship. Right. And they can happen in many different areas in a relationship. And if there are unhealthy dynamics in the relationship and I mean all relationships have their challenges, right? Some can become the kind of ones that end relationships. So those themes tend to spread across many areas. So if there is some sort of extreme power misuse or if there's some abuse in the relationship, it's not uncommon for it to play out financially as well. And in fact, it can become a way of controlling that other person in the relationship.
Alyson Jones 00:21:11 You know, maybe they're wanting to leave, but one partner is keeping them in fear of what would happen financially to them if they left. Right. And that becomes another tool in that coercive control toolkit.
Nicole Garton 00:21:26 So if somebody is listening and they recognize those patterns in their own situation, what would you recommend they should consider?
Alyson Jones 00:21:35 They really need to talk to some safe people about it. Right. And that's where I said some talking to professionals. Of course, talking to your family and friends, getting the support that you need, but talking to professionals can give you a reality check, because sometimes you can go and talk to a financial advisor or talk to your therapist, and you realize that you are actually more empowered than you knew you were, right. And these are the people that have a view of that landscape, right? And they can help educate you. You know, a counselor can help educate you on what are the steps, what's the plan we can take to move this forward? A financial person can educate you on what is the reality of your financial world, right? And how when you make a big change, do you go about recovery and the fact that recovery is possible, right?
Alyson Jones 00:22:27 Because if you're in a relationship where you're being told that it's not and you're isolated, the best solution to that is to not be isolated anymore. Right. To get that input and information that we need.
Nicole Garton 00:22:39 So practical mechanics like things like joint accounts versus separate who pays the bills, how you make big financial decisions, like how can people structure these discussions?
Alyson Jones 00:22:54 Yeah. First of all, realize there's no right or wrong way, right? Like some people, when they couple, they put it all into a collective account. ET cetera. Right. Some people keep things very separate. And then we'll have a joint account that they share for household expenses or kids expenses, whatnot. And that's not right or wrong. You know, there are certain things you want to do to safeguard yourself in regards to, you know, when you're putting money together with somebody else and you really do need to know them and need to know what that means. But in the long term, either of those can work very well.
Alyson Jones 00:23:28 Right. It's about transparency and making sure that everybody feels they have a voice, that they are aware of what the plan is. What doesn't work is when things take us by surprise, or we feel that they're secrets or we feel betrayed in some way. So the mechanics of it are secondary to the communication.
Nicole Garton 00:23:49 What about spending limits? Like there's an investment advisor that I know and her family has a 200 bucks rule where under 200 bucks people have full autonomy. But if somebody's going to spend over 200 bucks, there's a check in, you know, what do you think about that?
Alyson Jones 00:24:07 I mean, I'm sure that works really well for them. And what a great safeguard. If everybody's in agreement to that, they can rest in knowing that, you know, that's everybody's comfort level. You know, if they've agreed to that, if you're being told you can only spend $200, you cannot do this above $200, you must get permission from me. That's a different dynamic. See, the $200 doesn't change, right? So it's how you approach it because it is a safeguard.
Alyson Jones 00:24:34 And if everybody's comfortable, that's fabulous because you know what to expect. And expectations are important. But again, it goes back to is this something that everybody's agreed? People have different comfort levels. Right. And that's a great conversation to have. What is your comfort level? Do you even have a number that goes with that? Because for some people they might not. They might just sort of be like, you know what? I trust your discretion on that. If you think it's a big purchase, you know, I would really appreciate it if you ran it by me first.
Nicole Garton 00:25:06 Let's talk about what not to do. So what are the most common mistakes you see couples make about money?
Alyson Jones 00:25:14 The most common mistake people make about money. It's not the earth shattering one, but the most common is they don't talk about it, right? They just don't communicate about it. You know, this is uncomfortable for some of the reasons we've already discussed. And then it's like, I'll kind of stick my head in the sand and not look at it, and then it becomes very hard because they have no plan.
Alyson Jones 00:25:34 They continue to be embarrassed talking about something that has a lot of practical need to have conversations around. So that's the number one thing is people just don't talk about it. They avoid it. But the next phase, the things that really can be damaging to a relationship are when there are secrets and when there's, you know, what people might call financial infidelity. Where they've gone are the caring secret debt. Right. And the other partner didn't know. And all of a sudden you find out your partner has a gambling issue and owes $100,000 - like those things damage a relationship, right? Because those are betrayals.
Nicole Garton 00:26:15 So we hear about financial abuse in extreme cases. But what are subtler signs that all is not right?
Alyson Jones 00:26:23 If you're feeling insecure, like you need to kind of look at that. Right. But, you know, it can come up with little things like kind of controlling things, right where it's like, okay, you're going shopping. Well, make sure you text me first and get permission before you buy anything, right? It can be an uncomfortable limit that somebody is trying to put upon you, right? You know you've got an allowance.
Alyson Jones 00:26:43 You can spend this allowance, but you can't spend over that. And I'm the one that's in charge. And I'm not giving you the information to the accounts. Right. And some people are just more talented or comfortable. And now so much of this is online. And if you don't have that same comfort level, sometimes they hand it over to the person who does. But if that person isn't sharing the information back, or when you want information about the account, you can't get it from them or you get evasive answers. There's some issues there that probably need to be explored more.
Nicole Garton 00:27:17 So conflict about money is inevitable. Even couples who communicate well are going to disagree. How do they manage the inevitable disagreements?
Alyson Jones 00:27:26 As hard as it is, like, you know, conflict in a relationship is difficult for sure. It's also an opportunity to grow the relationship. We don't get deeper relationships. We don't get farther in our relationships without having to deal with some conflict and disagreements. So it is not a bad thing right? When it comes up.
Alyson Jones 00:27:44 It's an opportunity, but it's about how we apply ourselves to dealing with conflict. Right? And of course we're going to do, well, better if we can listen to the other person, hear what their concerns and fears are, right. What's going on for them underneath it, they seem really anxious about this, right? So bringing empathy into dealing with your conflict, bringing curiosity into dealing with your conflict, what is going on? Why is this so important to them? You know, and we tend to jump so quickly. Right. And I always say, you know, we got two ears, one mouth - listen twice as much. Listen to your partner. So when they feel heard then you can start to bring in your concerns that are the points that you want to make. So it's really about how you handle the conversations and allow yourself to grow in the relationship through the conflict.
Nicole Garton 00:28:41 So through this conversation, you've spoken about how financial disagreements are often deeper than just the money itself. Can you give us examples of what you've seen in your practice?
Alyson Jones 00:28:53 I've been practicing a long time, so I've seen a lot of challenges, right? If somebody is having secret accounts, right.
Alyson Jones 00:29:02 Things like that, it is incredibly frightening in our relationship to have that occurring. And then you start to go, if they're keeping this secret, what other hidden things, what have I built my life on? Right. And so this is where when there is some sort of infidelity from a financial perspective, when there's some sort of secrets and hidden things, it really makes people question their security. And often they're not as secure as they thought they were. Right. It can be the eye opening part, and either people need to correct some of that, or sometimes it does end up that they're just not able to go forward in a cohesive way anymore. If you're with somebody that you just can't rest it, that's the thing is, if you don't trust somebody, you can't rest. And if you can't rest in a relationship, it becomes incredibly harmful and harmful to our health. Like, we need to be able to go out in a day and do all our things and accomplish all our whatever. Come home and rest.
Alyson Jones 00:30:07 So when you can't rest at home, that's a problem.
Nicole Garton 00:30:11 How should someone know? Or what are the signs that a couple should be looking for outside help?
Alyson Jones 00:30:17 If you feel like you're stuck, you know you're trying to have those conversations and you've made attempts with your partner on several occasions and it's not going anywhere. I think that it's like, hey, this is a communication issue. We need to learn better communication skills and how to hold and validate space for each other. Right. So, you know, if there's name calling and attacks when it feels like it's personal, right? Then you need to get somebody else neutral involved, and you need to get some reality checks as to what is really going on here. And sometimes you need that, like I said, third-party neutral professional to give the picture back and also help build the skills.
Nicole Garton 00:31:00 A lot of the people that listen are people in midlife, and they're often facing significant transitions. So it might be retirement, it might be downsizing, caring for aging parents, changes in their own health.
Nicole Garton 00:31:14 How does this change those many conversations, those life stages.
Alyson Jones 00:31:18 Throughout the life of a relationship? You know, you start with all the romantic stuff, and that's where sometimes it's uncomfortable to talk about, you know, because we have this whole romanticized vision of everything. But, you know, people, if they're here, they're still together. Somehow they have coped. Right. So first of all, we want to give kudos. Where there, you know, it's like even if you didn't have the best communication skills you got here, right? And you're now talking about, okay, the next stages that are coming. Right. But the thing is to take those strengths that have worked in the relationship and think, okay, if we're planning for a retirement, we're planning to give some money to our children or planning our legacy from a real perspective or whatnot. This allows us another opportunity to kind of really talk about what our vision is, you know, and people like to share that. People like to have other people interested in them and interested in what their visions and their goals are.
Alyson Jones 00:32:12 So with another space to go deeper, and if you're already doing great in this area, fabulous. Now you really get to play, right? Like, this can be playful, it can be fun if you have a good working relationship with your partner and your pit this time in your life, and you want to plan what's coming next, the next great trip or the adventure we're going to plan for the family or this significant experience we've always wanted to have, and we're now in a position to have it. So you can do a lot of really fun and playful things with your money and communication and with your partner at this time in our lives.
Nicole Garton 00:32:52 That's a great way to reframe it. So a lot of issues we've seen are issues with adult children. Like particularly now, housing is so expensive. You know, educating kids is so expensive. And how are people dealing with, you know, issues with finding funds for down payments and talking to adult kids around money and inheritance expectations?
Alyson Jones 00:33:16 If you've already had a family culture that you've been able to openly talk about things and money, hopefully you know you've been talking to your kids along the way, I really think, and that's a whole other piece is, you know, talking to kids, young adults and whatnot about money.
Alyson Jones 00:33:29 And if you haven't, again, it's an opportunity to kind of get those conversations going because what do you really want for your kids? The reality is we are living in Vancouver, right? Young people buying a home, they're more than likely going to have to have some assistance. And it's the rare person that can afford to buy a home now, even get a down payment. So we are dealing with a different world, and we can't just look at it as this was the way it was with my parents. They never helped me. I did it all myself. That's just not a realistic picture anymore. But you also don't want to be, hey, I've got entitled kids that want to come and, you know, just expect me to be setting them self up in life, right? So those are some of the challenges. But if you're partnered with somebody, you need to kind of make some of those decisions together. If you're not, then you still need to be conscious about the decisions you're making.
Alyson Jones 00:34:21 And you shouldn't feel exploited by your adult children, you know, and they shouldn't be coming to you with the demands. But if you're in that relationship where you truly feel it's a healthy, good thing going. You know, you're probably going to want to support them achieving some of their goals and having a home or whatnot, right. It again requires that you start or have or continue some of these conversations.
Nicole Garton 00:34:47 So I've seen in an estate context, certainly ongoing gifting to adult children doesn't ever seem to lead to anything positive. So if listeners can take one thing away from today, what would you say to them to help? Having better conversations around money.
Alyson Jones 00:35:04 You really want to be respectful to the person that you're having the conversation with. You want to invite them into the conversation and to invite somebody into a conversation. You want to be curious. You want to hold space. You want to listen. So how you set the stage for the conversation is going to really impact how the conversation goes.
Alyson Jones 00:35:25 So start with curiosity, openness, and some kindness too.
Nicole Garton 00:35:30 Well that's wonderful. Allison, thank you so much. It's been a really practical and wonderful conversation.
Alyson Jones 00:35:35 Thank you so much for having me. It's been a delight and I'm happy to be a part of it. Thank you.
Nicole Garton 00:35:44 This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be considered individual, legal, financial or tax advice. Make sure to consult the advisor of your choice to advise you on your own circumstances.
Nicole Garton 00:35:59 Thank you for joining us for this episode of Your Estate Matters. If you like this podcast, make sure to follow it on your podcast platform of choice. Whether you're planning your own estate or you're acting as executor for somebody else's heritage, trust can help. Partner with Heritage Trust to protect your family, your assets, and your legacy. If you'd like more information about Heritage Trust, please visit our website at Heritage Trust. This podcast is produced by Podfather Creative.
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