Episode 51 - Turning Memories into Legacies with Mali Bain
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What stories from your life or family deserve to be remembered 100 years from now?
This week Nicole and Greg sit down with Mali Bain, educator, facilitator, and founder of Next-Gen Story Custom Publishing. Mali shares how she helps families transform life stories and histories into beautifully crafted books that preserve legacy across generations.
From capturing the wisdom of elders to bridging generational gaps through storytelling, Mali explains why books often outlast digital files, how writing can be both healing and connective, and why every life story has value. She also shares her own journey and reveals how personal narratives can strengthen resilience, belonging, and family bonds.
Discover why preserving your story may be one of the most meaningful legacies you can leave behind.
Nicole 00:00:02 Hello and welcome to Your Estate Matters with your host, my colleague Greg Brennand and myself, Nicole Garton of Heritage Trust.
Greg 00:00:09 Your Estate Matters is a podcast dedicated to everything estates, including building and preserving your legacy.
Nicole 00:00:16 If it's estate related, we'll be talking about it. We're having the conversations today that will help Canadians protect their families, their assets and their legacies tomorrow. Today we're joined by Mali Bain, founder of Next-Gen Story Custom Publishing. Mali is a seasoned educator and facilitator with a rich background spanning high school teaching, university administration, non-profit work, and philanthropy. She holds a B.A. from UBC, a B.Ed. From SFU and an Ma in Adult Learning and Education from UBC. At Next Gen Story, Mali specializes in helping individuals and families transform their life stories and histories into beautifully crafted books. Her work is rooted in the belief thats tory telling is a powerful tool for legacy building and community connection. She's also the author of Our Homes on Indigenous Lands Stories of My Ancestors Across Turtle Island, and memoir that delves into her family's history and its intersections with the broader societal narratives.
Nicole 00:01:21 Marley's expertise in guided autobiography, and her commitment to preserving personal and collective histories make her a valuable voice in discussions about estate planning and legacy. Marley, welcome to Your Estate Matters. And so, for those of us who don't yet know you, can you tell us a little bit about your background and the kind of work you do at Next Gen Story?
Mali 00:01:44 Sure. Thank you for welcoming me today. I'm a facilitator, educator, former high school teacher. But really, I'm here to talk about next gen story, which started because of my grandma Baine, and she had written hundreds of pages of stories and so on, and had little photo sand boxes, but she hadn't made them into a book, I helped her. She had the idea of putting them onto a computer. I said, I'm not so sure about a computer. Let's try putting them into a book. And so my daughter, who is named after her, will never meet my her great grandmother, but we'll have her story. Since doing that story, I've also written my own family history book.
Mali 00:02:17 And now with Next Gen Story Custom Publishing, we support others, other families and individuals to prepare their life story or family history books. So we provide all the services needed to get a beautiful book done that will last for generations to come.
Greg 00:02:33 Well, you've had a diverse and non-linear professional path across education, facilitation, publishing and philanthropy. What have been some of the key pivots in your journey and what values have remained consistent throughout?
Mali 00:02:46 What a fascinating question. Thank you for that. I think for me, what has been key throughout is having a clear sense of purpose and where that has been clear for me, where I'm very clear on what we are doing and why I love to contribute. And so in the book world, I've realized that that there are many people who are supporting the writing process, and I am very motivated towards getting a book completed. And so I really I'm motivated by seeing that end product. That is the purpose for me. We have a stat that 81% of people want to publish a book at some point.
Mali 00:03:16 And only 11% actually end up completing a book. So what I'm trying to do is bridge that gap. And I think you asked about values. I think I talk at next Gen about purpose, empathy, excellence, authenticity. And I reflect on your question and thought. Those actually are reflected throughout the work I've done over many years in different contexts, whether it be in the book world or in nonprofit. I really enjoy working with people to, you know, collaboratively working with them to help them represent their voice and something that will really last for many generations to come.
Nicole 00:03:45 So you often frame legacy as more than financial assets. And what does legacy mean to you and how do you help others define and articulate their legacy?
Mali 00:03:55 That's a big question. One of the quotes I really like is consider the advice you would give to your younger self, and this is your legacy. So it's the idea of thinking from your wise self now. What advice would you give that younger version of yourself, that 18 year old, the 25 year old? And if you can write that the story of your life from your current wise self, you might have some things to share with others.
Mali 00:04:17 And so for me, that legacy is really looking at what will last. And I like the time frame of 100 years from now. So I know that books have been around for hundreds of years. I don't know if USB keys and even the PDF file format that seems so ubiquitous right now. I don't know if 100 years from now they will know what those are or if those will all be in museums, but I am quite confident that books will still be around. And so some books that we create maybe lost the flood or fire, but I know that those books will be there. And so that's a true legacy is creating something that will exist for humans to engage in people that are not even born yet, but that will still understand it.
Greg 00:04:55 In your experience, how does a sense of belonging to place, to lineage, to community shape a person's desire to preserve and pass on their story.
Mali 00:05:05 It's another beautiful question. I thought about this as perhaps being that we in fact, weave our sense of belonging by sharing stories and receiving stories from others.
Mali 00:05:14 So in some cases, we've had books made for families and family and friends. We created a tribute book collecting memories and recollections from children and grandchildren, and that was gifted to grandparents. In other cases, it's a broader community. So a book Lost Within Waves woman who lost her child at birth. There is there is unfortunately, a community that no one wants to join, but that has many thousands of people who have had a similar experience. So the writing for that community, in that sense of belonging, and then the other side of belonging that's interesting is not just the product of the book, but also the process. The process can be quite isolating. Writing a book often is behind the computer, you know, by oneself. And so we've found that having a sense of belonging in being a part of a group. We have groups that we call Connect and grow. There are other groups out there. Being part of a group really helps up your completion rate, actually. So I said 11% of people finish their books generally.
Mali 00:06:08 And then the groups we run, we say about 75% of people are able to finish a book just because they have that sense of connection and belonging that helps us keep going, helps motivate us in life and in our work.
Nicole 00:06:20 So you've explored the connection between personal healing and collective systems change. Can you share an example of how someone's personal narrative has helped unlock a broader transformation or understanding in a family or community?
Mali 00:06:33 So there's one book that we created that we worked with an author, Audrey Burt, and she wrote a book called Living in Tandem, and the book is about her relationship with her non-verbal autistic son, who was about 18 years old at the time that that she wrote the book. And so when we began the project, she had a lot of different pieces of writing, butthey weren't put into any one structure. Right? So it was through the process of coaching her, working with her, having editors review her work that we were able to identify sort of a set of themes which ended in this, the last section on healing.
Mali 00:07:06 So there's this journey that she realized that she had really gone on in terms of healing and connecting and living in tandem with her son. And the fascinating thing is that she is also someone who has been advocating for systems change within. She lives in Quebec. So within the systems there and how funding is allocated. So I see this as a systems theory type person as what they would call scaling deep. So really an opportunity for people to step into her lived experience, build empathy and understanding of her life and thereby make changes in policy and structures and so on that benefit people like her son and herself. So when we can truly emphasize with other folks, especially the nonverbal members of our society, then we have a path to greater understanding and greater empathy.
Greg 00:07:54 Through your work at the next gen story, You help people capture and preserve family stories. What do you find people are most surprised to discover during theprocess of telling or documenting their story?
Mali 00:08:07 I think the first thing that people are surprised by is when I tell them that it'snormal if your first draft is really messy.
Mali 00:08:14 So I think people see other books out there and think, well, that looks sopolished and so natural. And yet when I write, my writing isn't quite so perfect. And so one
of the things I really like to emphasize is in this process, you don't need to have a perfect first draft. That's okay. That's what editors are here for. Even the best authors have a rough draft. This is the gift of editing. There's different types of editing. This also surprises people every time. When we think of editing, we think of our teacher in high school with a red pen, adding commas and, you know, changing grammar, that kind of thing. But the kind of editing that is the biggest gift to our authors is the kind of editing that says that looks at your writing and says, can you tell me more about the brother that you mentioned in chapter two, because you didn't mention him earlier. Can you share more about your husband and how you got to know him in the early years before he actually, unfortunately, passes away? You know, so the kind of questions that that really unpack and open up your understanding of your own book is, is a gift.
Mali 00:09:12 And it is, I think, surprising people when to see their own blind spots and say, wait a minute. I didn't even think in my own life to ask some of these questions. Now I'm having this asked of me. I'm learning about myself. I'm learning about my community. I'm learning new things that that I bought a life that I thought I knew very, very well. So this is something that comes up over and over again and families I work with.
Nicole 00:09:34 So how do you think storytelling strengthens family relationships and bridges generational gaps, particularly if there's conflict, loss or distance?
Mali 00:09:43 Some of our books come directly from a loss. So we do write legacy books that capture the essence of a person, whether they were passed recently or some time ago. And these are a way to capture the spirit and the essence of a person, and they are a comfort to the family in a way to kind of carry on their legacy. And so in the case of loss, that's a really big thing. You mentioned also distance or conflict.
Mali 00:10:03 You know, there's the saying that we may have skeletons in our closet. And I think every book I've worked on has at least a skeleton. We all have skeletons in our closet. We all have hard times in our lives, difficult relationships. And when creating a book, we inevitably get stuck for a bit on those sections. We need to revise those sections a few times more. We need to get more feedback on that section, those sections. But what's fascinating for me is to note that the research shows when we do share those sections, those hard times with young people, they have increased resilience, they have increased self-esteem, they have reduced anxiety, and they have a stronger sense of what they call continuous identity. So it's this idea that, you know what our people are people who make it through hard times, who have these struggles and find a way to be frank about it and to work it through. So there is there is a value in finding ways of working through that, the hard parts, even if it can be not always easy.
Mali 00:10:58 It is a healing journey and it helps share the healing with the rest of the family.
Greg 00:11:02 So you're also an entrepreneur. In what ways would you see entrepreneurship itself as a legacy practice, and are there particular values or philosophies you hope to pass through or on through to your business and the way you built it?
Mali 00:11:15 Fascinating. So I think often we talk about being kind of client centered or patient centered in healthcare or whatever it may be. So I think in terms of being client centered here, we've really tried to bring in everything that a person might need to complete their life story or family history book. So in some cases, that means meeting people where they're at. In some cases, that means literally having someone come to their home and interview them, because that writing isn't their happy place and they really want someone to speak with. In other cases, it means working with the writing they've given us and providing some feedback and input. We have mapmakers, cartographers who can create maps if you're looking for a map.
Mali 00:11:52 We have family tree designers who can help lay out that family tree in a way that's easy to interpret. If you'd like one of those in your book, and we have so many supports that try to wrap around somebody who is trying to do their own writing, like these group programs connect and grow like other many free resources that we offer to our to our clients. So we're really focused on serving clients and getting and helping them get to the purpose for us, which is that finished book. And so this this kind of focus on purpose, I guess, again, is that the piece that that really ties it together.
Nicole 00:12:23 So how do you personally navigate the balance between storytelling is deeply emotional and a creative process and the practical realities of running a business?
Mali 00:12:32 It's interesting, I think from the outside, when we first begin a book, it is very emotional and very creative and very generative, and I think of it as being a process of divergence and then convergence. So when we begin a book, we are writing as many memories as we can.
Mali 00:12:46 We're thinking of all the all the things that happened, all the things we could possibly include. And then as I work with a family or a person, what we find is we turn the corner a bit and we start to converge and we start to say, okay, what's actually to go into this book? And that process moves, interestingly, from being that kind of creative, generative place to being more of a process of editing, of weaning, of, of carving away the pieces that aren't going to work so well. And so I think of it often, that part is challenging. And this is my theory, in fact, on why books don't get done. Is that the technical changing from that generative, creative, heart filled space to that technical I want to edit and I want to refine and I want to design space is a tough shift to make. And so I find that that's the work that we try to do, is try to keep the heart. So we work with editors.
Mali 00:13:37 We have a team of editors, designers, etc. we try to connect with our families and help them keep that heart filled feeling throughout, a process that can get quite logistical on the way. And so I guess in some ways we start with saying, well, isn't a book creation process so creative, emotional, and isn't business so dry? And I feel like, well, actually to finish a book. It does end up being a bit logistical and we try to support people through that. And on the business side, I find people think it's very dry, but actually it can be very creative and heart centered. And so when we find opportunities to connect with people and build relationships and, you know, engage with people in really meaningful ways, that becomes the heart centered creative work. So there's this nice flow and dynamic between this logistical work and this creative, heart centered work.
Greg 00:14:24 So you've worked through with people in some very personal and vulnerable spaces. I mean, you've referenced that before, but what's that taught you about human nature, especially when it comes to memory, meaning and connection?
Mali 00:14:38 So what comes up for me is thinking that we often underestimate our own value.
Mali 00:14:42 So I can't give you a number for how many people I've spoken to have said, I don't know who would be interested in my book, or I was just a and they often fill in something like, I just raised four children. That was my grandmother's story. So I have come to believe about human nature that every life does have stories worth telling. And I've also come to believe that books are not about Egle. There's an outside perception that books are about ego and about bragging and saying, these are all the things I've done. But in fact, I believe that sharing your unique story is about connection, contribution. It's about being generous, actually. And so it's generous to your own family, to your nieces, nephews, children and grandchildren. It's generous to others who want to learn about your family, and it's also generous to your community, communities that you're aware of. You know, the place you live, your ethnic background, and even those who share your experiences in ways that you don't know yet.
Mali 00:15:35 Right? So it's a gift to many different people and even a gift to yourself. This is always the surprise for people too. It's a very beautiful thing to write your own story and complete that. That in itself is also a gift back to oneself.
Nicole 00:15:48 Is there a particular story of work done, your own or someone else's that has deeply changed how you view legacy or life itself.
Mali 00:15:56 You know, my grandmother's book is the one I have to speak of because hers is the one that really impacts me most personally, and I think that's the case for many we work with. So she I think the thing was for her, she liked some clients. I mentioned she saw herself as just having a few stories. She didn't think it was worth putting into a book, and she left many things behind. She left behind some financial assets. She had vases. I have a beautiful necklace that that was from her. But this book that we have is the biggest gift she has left us, and especially my daughter.
Mali 00:16:27 Because my daughter will get to know her. We'll get to know her sense of humor, her way of telling stories, her focus on gratitude and so on. And so it was. It was inher own words that she got to share that. And that's what's really meaningful, to myself, mydaughter and our family. So that's the one that really changed my understanding of thiswork and got me started in all of this.
Greg 00:16:47 So for people viewing and listening who are inspired by your work and want to preserve their own family history. What's the best way to begin?
Mali 00:16:56 I may be sounding like I have a theme here, but it's for a purpose. Purpose is the is the place I suggest people start with their book. So why are you creating this book? And I have a handout that goes through this. It's available on my website. But the question is why are you wanting to do this? Why now? And when we get really clear on the purpose, that really helps us. The second thing I recommend is thinking about who is my audience.
Mali 00:17:20 An audience is a big word, so sometimes I'll think about one person who I want to write this book for. If we write for many, we tend to be less engaging and less interesting. But if we write for one person, imagine one niece, one nephew, one neighbor, and work with just that one person. And then if assuming you're writing, if you're if you're doing interviews, that's different. But assuming you're writing another quote I love is from Hemingway. He says, forget the 400 pages. Write just one page per day. It really helps. And so something about just every day commit to opening up writing. Don't go back and edit. Don't judge yourself. Just write a page a day. Do that for a while and find time to look back later.
Nicole 00:18:01 Where can listeners find you and learn more about Next Gen story?
Mali 00:18:05 Yeah, so I have a website. The website is nextgen.com, so that's next story.My phone number is 1-800-953-4942. 1-800-953-4942. And then you can catch me anemail as well I'm at Mali@NextGenStory.com
Mali 00:18:30 Happy to hear from anyone. We do offer free consultations if anyone wantsto talk about their book project. No commitment to work with us, but we always want tohelp move book projects closer to completion.
Nicole 00:18:41 Do you have a favorite client you can share?
Mali 00:18:44 Well, it's like asking a parent that they have a favorite child. There are so many, but I can look. I'll look behind me here because I like you that sometimes. So there's one here that I haven't mentioned called Puritans, Quakers and witches. It's actually there a few times. And that was a family history going back 500 years. And what she did is trace one lineage of her family. For those who were interested in family history, they will recognize that family history is an exponentially growing amount of content. You know, you have two parents, you have four grandparents, you have eight great grandparents. The math starts getting pretty big pretty quickly. And putting that into a book can be challenging. But she found a really amazing way of tracing the narrative through all of those years.
Mali 00:19:25 So yeah, that was a that was a really interesting project for sure. And then a few of these others, I mean, there are many there are many favorites. But yeah, another, maybe another favorite that I mention. One more. Sure. Two projects I worked on early on have always stuck in my head because they were a nearly missed opportunity. So a grandmother had written her life story 20 years earlier, actually, when she was in her late 70s. She had written part of her life story in Microsoft Word, and when you read it, it was lovely. It was also a bit of what's the word? It tended to go on tangents. So she would say,you know, my sister had appendicitis, so we had to go downstairs and boil some water.Here's how we boil water. And this is how that, you know, we had to get water from this place and described all of that and then came back to the sister again with appendicitis. So the story was there, but it tended to jump around a little bit and needed some, some support.
Mali 00:20:20 So we did some structural editing, added some photos. And one of those books is this one right here, actually, that came from a Microsoft word document that would have been probably, you know, covered in digital dust by this point. But it is now a book, and family members have a copy of that book, and it's going to be on their book shelves and part of their lives. So that kind of thing is really meaningful to me. It's saying, let's not leave these beautiful stories on our computers in Microsoft Word. Let's print them out and make them part of our families, you know, bookshelf and set of heirlooms to pass on to future generations.
Nicole 00:20:54 Well, thank you so much, Molly. We really appreciate your time and sharing all your wisdom with us.
Mali 00:20:59 Yeah, thank you for taking the time.
Nicole 00:21:01 This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be considered individual, legal, financial, or tax advice. Make sure to consult the advisor of your choice to advise you on your own circumstances.
Nicole 00:21:15 Thank you for joining us for this episode of Your Estate Matters.
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