Episode 52 - The Emotional Journey to Financial Freedom with Jessica Moorhouse

Sep 25

In today's episode, Nicole and Greg welcome personal finance expert and host of the More Money podcast, Jessica Moorhouse. Jessica shares her journey from discovering money blogs to becoming a bestselling author and educator. The discussion explores the emotional and cultural factors shaping financial habits, the impact of family history, and the unique challenges millennials face. Jessica offers practical advice on financial wellness, homeownership, and overcoming systemic barriers. She emphasizes self-awareness, resilience, and accessible education, encouraging listeners to redefine financial success and approach money matters with compassion and confidence.

Head to Jessica's website to find her new book, Everything but Money: The Hidden Barriers Between You and Financial Freedom:
https://jessicamoorhouse.com/book

Nicole Garton 00:00:02 Hello and welcome to Your Estate Matters with your host, my colleague Greg Brennand and myself, Nicole Garton of Heritage Trust.

Greg Brennand 00:00:09 Your Estate Matters is a podcast dedicated to everything estates, including building and preserving your legacy.

Nicole Garton 00:00:16 If it's estate related, we'll be talking about it. We're having the conversations today that will help Canadians protect their families, their assets and their legacies tomorrow.

Jessica Moorhouse is one of Canada's most trusted voices and personal finance. She is an accredited financial counselor, the host of the award winning More Money podcast with over 4 million downloads, and the founder of More Money Media Incorporated, through which she educates Canadians and how to manage money in a way that is both strategic and emotionally sustainable. Jessica's bestselling 2024 book, Everything But Money: The Hidden Barriers Between You and Financial Freedom, goes beyond traditional financial advice. It explores deep rooted emotional, cultural and psychological forces that shape our financial lives, from childhood trauma and family dynamics to systemic inequity and societal myths about wealth. Featured in outlets like CBC, BNN Bloomberg and the Toronto Star.

Nicole Garton 00:01:21 Jessica is known for her reliable, honest and empowering approach to financial education. She blends real world expertise with personal insight to help people not just get rich, but get free. So, Jessica, you've built an incredible platform, from podcasting and public speaking to publishing a bestselling book, which I read and loved. Can you take us back to the beginning of your journey? What drew you to personal finance?

Jessica Moorhouse 00:01:47 Yeah. It feels like a million years ago, but also not that long ago, because it was such a pivotal moment in my life. I would be living a completely different life. If I hadn't discovered the world of personal finance, and specifically what kind of opened my eyes to it was personal finance blog. So back in, I think it was 2010 is when my older sister, she started actually, you know, wanting to learn a little bit more about money and had to pay off her student loans and things like that. And so she showed me, oh yeah, there's a couple blogs I read, and I had no idea what a blog was at that time.

Jessica Moorhouse 00:02:20 And so I'm like, oh, that's cool. And so I started reading some of the same blogs that she did, and then just exploring all these other blogs that are connected, because at the time, bloggers would comment on each other's blogs. That's how they got to know each other. And in 2009, I graduated university with film degree and was really craving another creative outlet. I knew we didn't want to pursue film anymore, but I really needed something to do. And I love to write. And so I'm like, why don't I start a blog? And it really was just a hobby. But it was so much fun, especially just during those days when no one was monetizing, everyone was just sharing whatever they wanted to share and were supportive of each other and supportive of, you know, educating each other and just learning. And so I did that for maybe 4 or 5 years while working a full time job in sales and marketing, and I came to a head in 2016 with a job.

Jessica Moorhouse 00:03:16 I had been there for almost three years and I just turned 30. And, you know, when you kind of turn one of those milestone years, you take a really good think about your life and, you know, what am I doing here? And I realized I hate my job. I've actually hated all of my jobs. And why am I not doing the thing that I spend all of my nights and weekends doing, which is writing and podcasting and personal finance? Maybe that should be my career. And honestly, it wasn't up until before that. I really never thought it could be. I never thought that would be a possibility. But then I started seeing some other people doing similar things to me, and they were making the leap, leaving their jobs and starting their own thing. And so I took a big leap of faith in January 2017. And here we are still going. And not only that, I've just continued to grow. I started a YouTube channel. I do public speaking.

Jessica Moorhouse 00:04:09 I do pretty much anything. I do live events. I do everything I can to connect with people and make them feel safe. And you know, because money is such a tricky topic, most people have never talked about it with anyone. So I want to be that person where they feel like, I think I could tell Jessica this. And that's why, honestly, to this day, I every day I get emails, DMs, people privately, you know, messaging me, telling me all their secrets, basically.

Greg Brennand 00:04:36 Were there moments early in your career that you felt like turning points, whether personal or setbacks or breakthroughs, that shaped your philosophy around money?

Jessica Moorhouse 00:04:45 Oh, definitely. Gosh. I mean, one that always comes to mind is I Was volunteering for the YWCA. I think I'd been in my first job out of university, so maybe this was like 2011 or 2012 or something like that. And there was an orientation for all the volunteers and mentors, and you're mentoring high school students, and everyone went around the room and was saying what their job was.

Jessica Moorhouse 00:05:13 And even though no one said what their salaries were, it was so clear to me that I was kind of the person who was earning the least amount of money. I was the one at the lowest level job, and I never felt so, like ashamed and embarrassed, which I really shouldn't have been. No one cares how much you're making when you're all volunteering for a good cause, but I just in that moment, I'm like, oh my gosh, I can't believe you know, this is what's going on with me. And again, you know, you think the world is ending throughout your 20s. I think it was probably 24, 25. And I'm like, oh my gosh, I need to get my life together. And that really made me want to learn more how to earn more money, because up until that point, I think I was really focused on budgeting, living on less. Being super frugal, I was so good at that. But I had kind of hit a certain point where I'm like, I can't cut back anymore.

Jessica Moorhouse 00:06:03 I'm already working two jobs. What can I do? And so it was really at that point that I started looking for other jobs, and then eventually me and my husband in 2013, we decided we're going to we're both from Vancouver and we're going to leave. We're gonna try our best and see what happens in Toronto. There's a lot of opportunity, a lot of great companies there. He works in music. There's a bigger music scene in Toronto, and we sold all of our stuff. And honestly, everyone thought we were crazy for doing this, but we sold all of our stuff, packed up. You know what we could in our little hatchback and drove across the country and moved here in July 2013. And it's nice we got here on Canada Day, so July 1st is always a really special day for us. Kind of an anniversary. And so that one moment of kind of realizing this isn't where I want to be, and I kind of feel stuck. And there's no growth here, at least for me.

Jessica Moorhouse 00:06:57 That's what I, I couldn't feel like I could grow in Vancouver. It really changed our lives, us both kind of recognizing we were kind of stagnating in our careers, and we needed to do something different, and we needed to do something drastic, and we need to do it now. And I know for a fact that I would not be where I am today if I stayed in Vancouver. And I think part of that isn't because Vancouver isn't an amazing city. It's because I think I was too comfortable. All my friends and family were there. I, you know, it was it was hard to kind of push myself out of my comfort zone. But when you moved to a new city where you really don't know anyone, but also you have the opportunity to kind of, I don't know, put on a not a different identity, but try something new and take chances where if you're in your hometown, it's sometimes harder to do that. When me and my husband moved to Toronto and we didn't know anybody, I knew one person.

Jessica Moorhouse 00:07:46 He knew one person I'd never actually been to Toronto before we moved here. So it was a big leap of faith for me. He'd visited once and it gave us a great opportunity just to try something new and to really push ourselves out of our comfort zone and do things that we would probably never do in Vancouver, such as like, you know, go to meetups with strangers to network. I would never do that in Vancouver because it's kind of a small town. Everyone kind of knows each other. And so I'd be kind of like embarrassed or just too shy. But in Vancouver I'm like, oh, or in Toronto, rather, I felt like, oh, I could be whoever I want to be here. Because really, it's so much easier sometimes to start a brand new chapter of your life in a new city. And so that's, I guess, my answer to that, my long winded answer to that very great question.

Nicole Garton 00:08:31 And in the process of being in Toronto, you've become incredibly successful and arguably a go to voice for a whole generation on financial topics.

Nicole Garton 00:08:41 So did you ever imagine you developed such a big audience in particular around something as emotional as money.

Jessica Moorhouse 00:08:48 Definitely not in the early days because again, I was predominantly when I was just blogging, writing for me. And even when I started my podcast back in 2015. In my mind, like, I'll do the podcast for a year, we'll see how it goes. If I don't like it, I'll shut it down. But I really started the podcast as another avenue to be creative because I kind of, again, felt like I wasn't growing with the blog, and it gave me a great opportunity or a great excuse rather, to invite people to talk to me. And I can, you know, all these great experts and authors and other content creators, and I can ask them questions and learn more. So really, I did it kind of selfishly is I want to learn some things, and I want to have a reason to reach out to them, cold email them and say, hey, do you want to talk to me for 30, 40 minutes? And in those early years of the podcast, I'd say the first couple, three, maybe even four years.

Jessica Moorhouse 00:09:39 It really was an education for me. Honestly, I have a hard time listening to some of those early episodes because I'm like, oh my gosh, I've grown so much since then. But I learned so much and grew so much, and I know a lot of listeners grew with me. But never in my mind did I. I've never and I've always been one of these kind of influencers, content creators who I'm like, I didn't get into this thinking, I'm going to start a business. I'm going to make money from this. I'm going to have a job because of this, because that didn't exist when I started. It was really just like, you're just kind of having fun. You're exploring, you're being creative. And it wasn't, I guess, until I decided to leave my corporate job to try to do this as a real business and try to make a living from this, that I'm like, okay, let's get serious about this. Let's see what we can do to continue to grow.

Jessica Moorhouse 00:10:21 And I'll say, though, I left that job over eight years ago and, you know, it's been great doing this, but I'm still never satisfied. I'm always just like, how can we grow? So like, even this summer, like, all right, we've done ten years of the podcast somehow. And, you know, we have a bestselling book. We have all these great things. What's next? You know, let's enjoy. You know, I'm trying to also practice gratitude and just really savor all the great things that have happened and really appreciate them. But I'm always looking forward to, like, what can we do next? Because I know there's so many people that need to know some of the messages and the information and education that I have to offer that have no idea exist. So I'm trying to, yeah, find new ways to continue to grow.

Greg Brennand 00:11:00 So your book’s title, Everything But Money, is so compelling. What does it mean to you and what are the hidden barriers that you think most people overlook in their financial lives?

Jessica Moorhouse 00:11:12 Yeah.

Jessica Moorhouse 00:11:12 So the book really came about in a very interesting way. Originally, I mean, I've always wanted to have a book, and I was even shopping around book ideas in 2019 and then kind of put that on the back burner in 2020, when it seemed like that isn't the priority right now. Survival is. And it wasn't until I think, 2022 when it kind of be like, okay, maybe we should revisit this, but originally I was pitching, you know, I had a proposal Ready that I'd worked on that was more focused on a practical how to money, because I do have so much knowledge and information. I'm like, and I thought that's what people wanted. And it wasn't until I was in a meeting with my publisher that they really honed in on one sentence in my proposal that was, hey, I'm also going to touch on topics such as your relationship with money, trauma, psychology, behavior, societal systems that are, you know, keeping people down. In my mind, that would be maybe a chapter or half a chapter.

Jessica Moorhouse 00:12:08 They're like, oh no, this is fascinating. We haven't read this before and we want to know more. Can you write an entire book about that? And I said, of course I can. I'll figure that out later. Of course I can. And I always tell people, as cheesy as it sounds, even though this isn't the book that I expected to write is the one that I needed to write. Because, as you know, because you read the book, I am not just telling you what you should do and how to fix your relationship with money. I needed to go through the process myself and fix my own relationship with money, which was very unhealthy and I had no idea. I thought it was fine. And so to kind of give you an idea of like, what is this book about? What can you expect? It really is to answer the question, why do so many people struggle with money and are stuck in cycles of overspending or under spending or feeling, you know, shameful or anxious or envious of others? Why do most people have negative relationships with money when it's not necessarily that they lack money, or that they lack financial literacy? Because I talk to people all the time, when I work with one-on-one clients, they have the money, it's there and I can find it for them.

Jessica Moorhouse 00:13:12 Or when, you know, I talked to them, they're like, oh, I've read all the books, I've listened to all the podcasts, I've done courses, and I'm still not moving forward. Why is this? So? I wanted to have a book for those people that feel like they can't find answers in traditional financial books. And so I really want to, you know, explore what are the things that are holding you back that might be hidden or invisible, that no one's really talking about. And so we really start right at the kind of foundational level talking about, let's talk about where things started, your origin story with money. What's your first money memory, and does that have an impact on you later in life? Spoiler. Yes it does. And you know, how were you raised? What were some of the belief systems and values that were maybe put on you by your parents and you've never really thought, hey, do I still believe in that? Or why am I still carrying that with me? I actually don't believe in that at all.

Jessica Moorhouse 00:14:05 I maybe need to let that go because it's holding me back. And then we talk about some really deep topics such as experience trauma or generational trauma, trauma that you can inherit from your ascendance, things that you'll find in psychology books and trauma, books you won't find in a financial book. And so we really go deep and explore different avenues that you may not expect that what I found from talking to readers is they are finally getting that moment of that's why. That's why I can't stop from overspending. It's because every time I get triggered, because of such and such situation, I want to buy something and I need to buy something because I need that dopamine hit to get me back into that, you know, mental state of safety and connection instead of this feeling of fight or flight. And so having those answers can help you figure out, okay, what is the solution for me? And the solutions I tell everybody is therapy and financial help. You need both. You can't just go see a financial advisor or professional.

Jessica Moorhouse 00:15:07 They're not mental health experts. We need to see a mental health expert as well.

Nicole Garton 00:15:11 So that was one of the things I actually really loved. You even went into attachment styles and all kinds of interesting things. So you go into the deep emotional and psychological roots of our money behavior. What are some of the most common money or financial blocks you see in people you work with?

Jessica Moorhouse 00:15:28 You know, attachment style actually does keep on coming up. I was just talking to a friend of mine, and she's in a transition period in her life. Her and her partner are going to be getting married, and they're having lots of discussions about prenup and financial stuff that normally they maybe didn't really talk too much about, and they actually started having some really deep conversations about their different communication styles. Somehow they're in conflict sometimes, especially when they talk about money. And she read my book and then he, you know, they started having discussions about attachment style. And then they found out, oh, one person's an anxious attachment style.

Jessica Moorhouse 00:16:04 One is an avoidant attachment style. That's where the conflict is because their needs are not being met. And, you know, she said, if I didn't read your book, I don't know if we would have ever kind of connected those dots or been able to open that line of communication, which is starting to now make a lot more sense why we were feeling certain feelings when we talk about money, which is so exciting to hear. And so attachment is really interesting because most people just think about, you know, a romantic relationship. Why can't I never, you know, hang on to or have a long term relationship or things like that. But I want to really introduce the concept of, well, we all have a relationship, a very complex and committed relationship to money or attachment styles also affect that. So I thought that was really interesting. And the other really interesting thing that, you know, when I kind of learned about it, I'm like, this is so fascinating and it makes so much sense.

Jessica Moorhouse 00:16:52 Is that kind of generational trauma aspect where, you know, I have a lot of kind of idiosyncrasies or feelings with money. I could not explain before I did a genus gram. So I took a look at my parents and my grandparents on my mom's side and on my dad's side, and took a look at their relationships with money and life events that happened that had to do with money. And when it kind of came back to me, I'm like, well, it makes a lot of sense that, you know, one of my kind of hangups or things that I'm kind of always struggling with is this idea that I can actually build wealth like you know. I know one day I'm going to retire. I'm going to be secure and comfortable. The idea of having more than that. I was like, well, that's impossible. And I realized it's because it's not impossible. I know a lot of people that do these things, and there's strategies out there. It's absolutely possible. But the reason I never thought it was possible for myself is because when I look at all the past generations on both sides of my family, no one has ever had wealth.

Jessica Moorhouse 00:17:55 It's always been poverty. Until I'd say, my grandparents were able to get out of poverty and then set my parents up. So they were kind of lower middle class. And so we were more comfortable than probably past generations. But no one's been able to be a millionaire or, you know, retire early or anything like that. And so understanding more about my family background start to make me feel like, oh, I'm not crazy. This makes a lot of sense when I look at the history of things and how we don't realize those events that have happened to our ancestors impact us now and then. When you realize that, how can we let that go? Because I don't want to carry this burden anymore.

Greg Brennand 00:18:37 Can you share a story, whether from your own life or a composite or client experiences, that would illustrate how powerful these unconscious money narratives can be?

Jessica Moorhouse 00:18:47 Gosh. I mean, I'd say that's with almost every client I've ever worked with. They've had some kind of realization that there's something unconscious going on.

Jessica Moorhouse 00:18:56 Let me see if I can. there's probably actually a few that have integrated into the book. So one story I like to tell because for whatever reason, this particular story so many people have told me, oh my gosh, I can relate to that, including my husband. He's actually been on the podcast. He was so vulnerable and want to share more about his story, especially his healing journey. But he has also always had issues with, you know, never feeling good enough and kind of parenting his parents because they were never really good with money and It also feeling just guilty and a burden to people. And so as an adult his kind of way of trying to soothe that kind of part of himself was like, okay, fine. I knew I was a financial burden on my parents, so I'm going to make sure I'm not going to be that as an adult. I'm going to learn about personal finance. I'm going to, you know, get a job in the financial field.

Jessica Moorhouse 00:19:45 I'm going to be so responsible with money. I'm even going to help my parents with their money issues. I'm going to be perfect. And he then started going to therapy because he was, you know, having some issues and realized, oh my gosh, that is so unhealthy. Although, yes, I am financially in a better spot than, say, my parents are. I have a very complicated and toxic relationship with money, and part of it is because I, you know, used to believe that the reason my family was low income was it was because it was my fault as a child. And it's never your fault as a child. And so it wasn't until he did a good reflection on some of the things that he experienced in the traumas he experienced as a child and then where he's at now as an adult, that he had to do a lot of self work, and he worked with a therapist. He did some, you know, there's lots of alternatives out there to you. There's so many different forms of therapy.

Jessica Moorhouse 00:20:37 He found a lot of help through hypnosis, and that really changed the game for him. So I'm always up for it. Try whatever works for you. And it made the biggest mental shift and he's now in such a better space. But it's you know, again some of us may not think of some of those things that we heard from our parents when they didn't even know we were like listening that are really ingrained in us and that we're just living with as we're in our 30s and 40s and up. And we really do need to really think about that, because that might be the thing that is always in the back of your head when you're in a position where you could be earning more money, but you don't take the opportunity or, you know, you know, you should be saving the money, but for whatever reason, you keep on spending it and you're putting yourself in a kind of a backwards position. And so, yeah, that was a that was a really impactful story that he shared.

Jessica Moorhouse 00:21:25 And it was really lucky that he was open to sharing that.

Nicole Garton 00:21:28 So you were very candid in the book about your own experiences. And I remember the story you told about yourself as a four year-old, the blue gumball.

Jessica Moorhouse 00:21:38 Yep.

Nicole Garton 00:21:40 How has confronting your own money story changed your perspectives on money?

Jessica Moorhouse 00:21:45 I mean, it changed my perspectives on money, but also my entire family because we had to have a lot of conversations while I was writing the book and going through therapy that I never had before, especially with my parents. And that was difficult, but also really healing. And so what's exciting is, I mean, it's difficult when you're at the start, but you really do have to get through it. And then when you are on the other side of it, there is growth and there is healing. And so for me and my parents, you know, my mom obviously doesn't like me sharing that story because she doesn't remember that happening. But also she feels bad because she's like, oh my gosh, I don't I didn't want to make you feel bad and of course.

Jessica Moorhouse 00:22:22 But, I mean, she didn't do anything wrong at all. She was a parent parenting her child and telling her not to steal things. Fair enough. But you know, we had to have a lot of tough conversations about, you know, my experience is different than your experience, and that's okay. But my experience definitely colored the rest of my life. And I had to kind of figure that out. We're in such a great space that we can openly talk about things that we never were able to before, which is really exciting. But going back to that story. So that was I shared the origin story of me and money. And it's funny to how, you know, I wrote this book. I honestly had no idea where I was going to go with it. I just started writing chapter one all the way to the last chapter. I had an idea of where I wanted to go, but I didn't expect myself to write that story. It came out of me when I was, you know, thinking about this topic.

Jessica Moorhouse 00:23:10 Yeah, I was four years old when it happened, but it was so vivid in my mind that I had to write it down. And then it made a lot of sense once it was written down and I reread it, I'm like, oh my gosh, maybe this has everything to do with why I have a lot of feelings of shame when it comes to money, because my first experience as a child with money was something shameful. I did something shameful by stealing, and then I was shamed by my mom for doing something that I shouldn't be doing. And I held on to that and never, you know, digested it and got over it and healed from it until I started rereading the story that happened to me. And it's one of those things that I encourage everyone to do, and it's been great over the past several months. My book coming out, doing, you know, presentations and workshops, and I'm going to do a lot more in the fall as well, where I walk people through some of these exercises and ask them, find out what your origin story with money is.

Jessica Moorhouse 00:24:04 And let's see. And I also ask them, how does money make you feel today? Here are some words that you can use. And let's see now is there a connection between both. And I'd say like 80% of the time people say yes there's a connection and I never thought of that before. And this makes a lot of sense. So it's a really exciting for people to kind of be like, oh wow, okay. Maybe that's where it all started.

Greg Brennand 00:24:27 A big part of your audience are millennials. And let's face it, they've come up during an age with multiple financial upheavals. And what's unique about the financial pressures that they face compared to the previous generations.

Jessica Moorhouse 00:24:41 I mean, how long do we have? I'd say the biggest things that we have struggled with, that maybe other generations haven't, is the cost of education. So a lot of us have student loans. Education post-secondary specifically was much more affordable. I mean, you hear stories all the time of Gen Xers and Boomers being able to pay for their entire degree in cash.

Jessica Moorhouse 00:25:06 And I don't know, honestly, many people I don't know if I know anyone who is able to pay for their way through school. They either got loans or they had their parents save up for them for 18 years so they can pay for school. And then, you know, a lot of millennials experience the Great Recession, I certainly did. I graduated in 2009. It was very difficult to find any kind of work. And so we definitely had a lot of experiences with unemployment and underemployment during a time where we thought we're supposed to start our lives and start our careers. Then there's also the fact that, you know, a lot of companies don't exist that used to exist, like ones that existed for decades, and then they just weren't able to kind of stay with the times. I mean, my first job out of university was a newspaper that was, you know, very prominent at the Georgia Straight, actually. You might remember it. And, you know, I started in the 60s and people had been there for decades, like some people had been there for like 30 years or 40 years even.

Jessica Moorhouse 00:26:01 And, you know, not too long ago, a few years ago, it went bankrupt and closed down. And then there's and there's just so many other companies, actually, there's like a several companies I worked for that no longer exist. And that's not uncommon. A lot of millennials have experienced a lot of job insecurity. Just because you feel like, okay, great, I got a job, but will this job exist or will this role exist? And now there's a lot of discussions about how jobs are changing so much, especially with AI coming in to replace a lot of jobs. And so there's a big sense of is there any kind of resting period, like when can I relax? Because it feels like no matter what. Something's going to change. And so you have to continue to adapt and evolve. And it can be exhausting because, yeah, it's just like you never know what's going to happen the next year. And I know this isn't unique to millennials. Gen Z is also experiencing this probably at a more severe level.

Jessica Moorhouse 00:26:54 And so I think that's those are some of the biggest issues, not including, of course, the cost of housing, the cost of everything. Basically, a lot of millennials were able to, you know, purchase property, maybe a condo or something like that if they, you know, were able to get work right away in their 20s and kind of get in early. But a lot of people who weren't. You know, a lot of people weren't able to start their careers maybe until the late 20s and 30s. They feel like they're kind of they missed the boat. And so that's a big issue for a lot of people, is not feeling like they have stability with their career or housing stability, because when you're a renter, you know, of course there's some great landlords and great, you know, places out there that you can rent. But I know a lot of people that, oh, well, they want to kick me out because they're going to renovate it, or they want a family member in it, and then you have to move, even if you've been there for like eight years.

Nicole Garton 00:27:45 So there's a lot of performative financial behavior in millennial financial culture, of course. Certainly on social media. What do you say to millennials that feel shame about this or they feel behind or stuck?

Jessica Moorhouse 00:27:59 I'd say number one, that's a very common feeling. I'd say, especially over the past seven or 8 or 10 years, really with social media. Because before social media, you only really had to compare yourself to your friends, family, your neighbors and your coworkers and some. And that's kind of a it's a much smaller pool, and it's kind of easy to be like, oh, we're probably in the kind of the same playing field. But now with social media, you were comparing yourself, your financial situation, your level of success, your career, the money you have in your bank with people you don't know from different countries with different ages, in different financial situations that you don't know, like a lot of influencers are able to be influencers because they have generational wealth, they have money already, they have a trust fund, or they just have, you know, ample privilege.

Jessica Moorhouse 00:28:49 So it's easier for them to become, you know, a famous fashion influencer because they have the money to buy these expensive fancy clothes and buy the equipment and all that kind of stuff. And so it's very difficult to feel good about yourself unless you're completely unplugged, which is what I encourage a lot of people to do. I try to unplug on the weekends, not look at my phone definitely on Sundays, and try to limit my use on Saturdays and then, you know, try to, you know, either have an app that kind of shuts me out of my accounts or, you know, I just need to be more mindful of when I'm on the app because even I get sucked into that, I'll start scrolling and looking at things, and then you start to feel like, oh, I don't feel so good. Why is that? I, you know, why don't I feel good about myself and you won't even know where it came from? Because again, you've scrolled past that thing like 20 minutes ago.

Jessica Moorhouse 00:29:36 And then until you really sit with it, you're like, oh, I think it's because I saw some, you know, reel or TikTok where someone was saying that they earn, you know, $20,000 per month. And that made me feel really bad because I don't earn anywhere near that. And then unless you really take a moment to think about how ridiculous that is, most people do not earn that kind of money, and you don't need that kind of money to feel, you know, settled and secure and happy with your life. You'll just sit with that feeling and then continue feeling bad, and then the algorithm will see you like that and they'll kind of present you with more of that content, and then you'll continue to feel bad. So social media is great. However, it can also be very dangerous. And so you really do need to kind of self police yourself. Otherwise it will have a really negative impact on your mental health.

Greg Brennand 00:30:19 You often talked about redefining wealth just beyond net worth. What does the broader definition of financial wellness look like for millennials navigating high debt, housing precarity and burnout?

Jessica Moorhouse 00:30:34 Oh gosh.

Jessica Moorhouse 00:30:34 Yeah. We're balancing a lot of things, aren't we? Burnout, especially because a lot of us had to start with the, you know, two jobs and never stopped having two jobs. But I'd say the only way to feel good about your money and to, you know, experience financial wellness in whatever capacity is you have to define it from yourself. You have to you have to create your own boundaries especially, and adhere to them. And so even for me, I tell people this all the time that when I'm feeling low about my own financial situation, that still happens because I'm human. I will sometimes refer back to the last chapter of my book, which is about money and happiness, to remind myself what actually makes me happy, what actually makes me feel good. And in terms of like, okay, what can anyone do to feel more grounded with their money? You know, that advice has been around for years and years and years, and it works. Such as, you know, get that emergency fund having cash in the bank and learning that that was one of the first things I learned in my 20s.

Jessica Moorhouse 00:31:31 It was the best advice I ever got was: “have money in the bank.” First and foremost, you know, don't pay attention to any, you know, you know, paying off debt right away, all that kind of stuff. Have some cash in the bank because if something happens, you are covered and you just feel good knowing that, oh, I've got some money in the bank. So I'm not living paycheck to paycheck. I don't have to be worried about, oh, do I have enough money for groceries and rent next month? So that's number one. And I go through this in the book as well because I talk about, you know, it's important to go to therapy. But then you might be like, how do I afford therapy? It's expensive. Here is how you can create a spending plan so you can achieve your goals. So that emergency fund then debt. Number two especially that high interest debt. And then it's all about, you know, starting to figure out what are your goals beyond those kind of things that are really causing you a lot of financial anxiety? And how can we look forward and start building wealth and investing? And I know all of that sounds simple, but also overwhelming at the same point.

Jessica Moorhouse 00:32:28 So that's why I always tell people just to step one, step two, step three. It's going to be slow. It's going to be too slow for you. You're going to be very impatient about it. It's going to feel like nothing is happening. But I tell you, after a few years you will see the results. And that's why I also tracking everything, tracking your spending and tracking your net worth is so vital. I wish I did that in my 20s because I have. I was good with my budget, but I didn't track anything, so I have no idea where that money actually went. And you know, that is the evidence that you're making progress. And I tell everyone I've been doing my system that I tell everyone to do for over eight years. Same with my husband and we have eight years of data to see. This is where we started and this is where we are. And sometimes the numbers are like, I can't believe that. How did that growth happen? That's insane.

Jessica Moorhouse 00:33:16 Well, you know, when you're paying down your debt, when you're investing that money, when you're living within your means, it all compounds at the same time, and eventually there's some sort of tipping point where it just kind of goes and you're like, I don't even know how it's going, but it's on. It's automated, it's going and it's happening, and that's really exciting. But the hardest part is starting at ground zero, or in lots of the financial accounts and clients I work with are in the negative. They have a negative net worth. And that feels awful because you're like, oh my gosh, I'm working so hard just to get to zero. But once you get to that zero, which feels really good, what feels even better is getting to the hundreds, the thousands and seeing that, oh yeah, I can do this, I am capable, I just have to again really understand what are some of my triggers? What are some of my behaviors that I maybe, you know, use as coping mechanisms? And what can I do to make sure that I am, you know, taking self-care for myself? I always tell people, if you need like a different way to think of, you know, why should you take care of your money and do all those boring money things? It is a form of self-care, one of the best ones, because you're taking care of you now and in the future, and you can just take it slow and give yourself some grace because it's it's difficult, especially in this world of overconsumption.

Jessica Moorhouse 00:34:31 And everyone is just flaunting money. Maybe, you know, and who knows if it's real. They're spending money, they're going on expensive trips. It's not fun staying at home, you know, eating ramen noodles and, you know, living on a budget. But if you do that again, future you will. Thank you. I think past Jessica, 20 year old Jessica, who really lived frugally for where she set me up to be, where I am today.

Nicole Garton 00:34:57 So speaking of that hot, hot topic is home ownership and the incredible rise in cost. Is it realistic for young Canadians to be homeowners today? What do you say to them?

Jessica Moorhouse 00:35:13 I think it can be. Again, there's so many variables. For example, it depends on what your kind of earning potential like, what kind of industry or rules that you'll have in the future. I mean, if you make a higher income, it's more possible compared to, again, like if we're looking 20 or 30 years ago, like my parents were able to somehow when they were in their early 20s, they bought a rancher in Port Coquitlam on one income, and they had two kids, and it was like $90,000.

Jessica Moorhouse 00:35:43 And that is just not possible like that. The rules are different now. That's just not possible to do something like that. In this day and age where everything is so expensive. So I think we have to think of homeownership a little bit differently. A lot of us are, if we're going to be homeowners is going to happen later in life. And also it could look like maybe not just buying a house. It could be like, there's nothing wrong with living in an apartment or a townhouse again. I mean, I've lived in every kind of dwelling type and it's totally fine. Honestly, the more house you have, the more you're going to buy stuff to fill it up. It's like we're goldfish. And, you know, maybe it's about also rethinking. You know, should I be living in this dwelling by myself? Or should I have roommates or, you know, live with family? This is what lots of cultures do all the time. And it makes a lot of financial sense. And I think we just need to kind of redefine home ownership and also get rid of the stigma that renting is bad.

Jessica Moorhouse 00:36:40 Of course, there's pros and cons for home ownership and renting on both sides, so you really do need to figure out is this actually something I want, or is this something I feel that society is just pushing on me or my parents pushing on me because they got the advice from their parents that home ownership is a really good thing to do. It was back then because it was so cheap to buy, but now it's so expensive. Is it financially a better idea to rent a place that's much cheaper than owning a place again? Because there's so much less? Yeah, you pay rent, but you likely maybe don't have to pay utilities or maybe very few utilities. You don't have to pay property taxes or maintenance. There's all these things that you don't have to pay that then you can put into your savings or pay off your debt with or invest. And I know a lot of young people, especially because they also don't want to be maybe locked down in a certain location because maybe they'll move cities or move countries for their job.

Jessica Moorhouse 00:37:30 They are all pro renting and then just making some really smart decisions with their investments instead of, you know, putting everything into their home. And I know we're seeing that with a lot of boomers, especially as they put everything into their home. And lots of them were lucky and got a pension. But outside of that, they don't have a lot of personal investments. So we're seeing a shift now with young people who aren't getting pensions because those are very far and few between. Can't afford to buy a home. So now they're like, okay, different for me. I'm going to rent and just invest really aggressively.

Greg Brennand 00:38:00 So your book goes beyond individual habits to look at systemic issues gender pay gaps, racial wealth gaps, generational poverty. Why was it important for you to include that lens?

Jessica Moorhouse 00:38:12 I think it's because most books never talk about it. Most books out there. And again, I say most books generally. There's some really great books out there, but a lot of the traditional and popular books that have been around for a while, they don't talk about that.

Jessica Moorhouse 00:38:25 I read this one, I think it was a few years ago, and the overall message was, if you don't want to be poor, stop thinking like a poor person. And I'm like, that must have worked in the 90s. But that is not good advice now because you're assuming so many things. You're assuming that people are poor, out of choice, not because of circumstance. And that's a very privileged you know, I'm sure that person came from a very privileged background. And so he didn't have this insight into what other people experience. And, you know. You know, for instance, I'm a woman. I know I've been discriminated against in, you know, working with, you know, people in the financial field. But also when I was working more corporate roles and being passed over for raises and promotions, and I would see, you know, someone who was male, who had less experience, less education, and they moved up the chain a lot quicker. And I would always get, you know, great reviews whenever we did those.

Jessica Moorhouse 00:39:18 And yet I'd always be passed over. And for me, it's vindicating that when I left the last role that I had, I've been able to build this really successful business for myself to kind of prove, oh yeah, it wasn't actually me, because I knew I had it in me to do all of these things and be successful. I was just in a environment that was holding me back because of all of these biases that exist that, again, a lot of them are unconscious or invisible. And so I really wanted to preface, like have a section dedicated to all these things that, again, are invisible. If you're, you know, if it's based off gender or race or even disabilities that never gets talked about in personal finance books, that if you have any of these things, if you fit into any of these categories, you likely have experienced some sort of discrimination, and it likely has affected your finances and your earning potential and all of these things. And so we need to acknowledge this, and we need to acknowledge if we have privilege.

Jessica Moorhouse 00:40:15 Because if you deny privilege, you're denying someone else's lack of privilege and saying, oh, well, we all have it the same. We're all starting on the same starting line. And that's just absolutely not true. The data shows that that is not true. And so we need to talk about these things. So if you do have privilege, you could be in a better position to be more self-aware and call out discriminatory practices that exist if no one's calling them out and being a really good ally. So we can make change in the kind of systemic sense, but also on the individual level, whether that's advocating for a coworker that you're seeing other some like, you know, things that are happening and I don't like to see it, and I'm the one as maybe someone who has, like white privilege, that I can stand up for them because they're being discriminated against because of their race. And, you know, sometimes, unfortunately, that's the only way that, you know, this is going to be heard and actually change is going to be made.

Jessica Moorhouse 00:41:08 And so that was something really important to me. And it's meant a lot for me to hear from other people that do fit into those categories, that this is the first time I've read this in a book, and it felt really good that you acknowledged this, because a lot of people don't. And so they think I'm earning less because I work less hard. But I know that's not true. And I'm like, I know it's not true. The data shows it's not true.

Nicole Garton 00:41:28 What about people that feel like they're doing everything right but they're not getting ahead? What do you say to them?

Jessica Moorhouse 00:41:34 It's a hard thing to yeah, have a solution for that was the hardest part of writing the book is like, well, I can present all the problems and and the statistics and the data show this is what's going on in terms of what can you do about it? That's really difficult because I do not have like, you know, me personally, I don't have the answers on how we can break down these really huge systems.

Jessica Moorhouse 00:41:56 And unfortunately, too, we're seeing a lot in this world that some systems that were broken down are being put back in and making it harder once again for certain people. And so the only thing that we can do is if you are in that kind of marginalized category, then you can't give up. You have to keep fighting because then the other side will win, and then those systems will always stay in place. But if you're on the other side of it, you aren't part of those categories. But you see this happening. You need to be an advocate for change. You can't stay silent. You have to do stuff. Because again, you could probably speak to these things and it not you not get fired, you not be reprimanded. Whereas that other person was there already being discriminated against. They may actually be at risk of losing their job. And again, it'll be for a completely different reason. But we know what the real reason is. And so on all sides. We need to be really proactive about talking about this.

Jessica Moorhouse 00:42:49 So it's less of a, you know, if more people are talking about this and again, presenting the evidence that this is an existence, then less people will be able to deny that it exists. And then change can actually happen because we can't deny change or we can't deny that we need new systems and new rules and hiring practices and all this stuff. If it's so obvious, this is what needs to happen.

Greg Brennand 00:43:13 So you advocate for both personal responsibility and systemic awareness. How can we hold both truths at once when navigating our financial paths?

Jessica Moorhouse 00:43:24 Well, yeah, I mean, I think it's absolutely possible. Two things can be true at once. And so we need to, you know, acknowledge and just, you know, say, okay, this is the system that we're in and it's unfair. However, even within the system, there are still things within my control. So a lot of stuff is out of your control, Role, but not everything. And so I think that's where people kind of get lost as they think, well, if the system is unfair, what's the point? Well, the thing is you can still play the system.

Jessica Moorhouse 00:43:50 There are still avenues you can take. There's still things that you can do. I mean, I write in the book, a lot of people I know who have been discriminated against in one way or another, whether at school or in their careers. What did they do? They started their own business, and now they're thriving. And so that's one avenue they didn't give up. They just kind of changed the story and did something differently. You know, one example is there was a professor I mentioned in the book. It was interesting how that story kind of came about. Actually, my husband at the time was thinking of doing a career change, but he just wanted to kind of test the waters of becoming a therapist. And so he took a social work class with one of the universities, and he had this speaker who was a professor, and he just told me about it, and he was so inspired about his story. And I'm like, oh my gosh, could you put me in touch with him? I want to talk to him and interview him for my book because this is amazing.

Jessica Moorhouse 00:44:39 And he, you know, originated from Africa. Immigrated to Canada and worked in social work. But he wanted to get his master's degree. And, you know, he had all the qualifications. He had multiple master's degrees already. He was very qualified and educated, but he was rejected from the school, and it was based off of his name because it was an African sounding name. And there was, you know, a racist person who was in charge of enrollment. And so for him, he was about to give up until someone saw what was happening and, you know, gave him some motivation to not give up and advocate it for him. And he was able to turn things around. He was finally that person. I mean, it was also kind of luck that person left the school, but he was able to kind of reapply and got accepted and continue his education. And now he's a professor. And so part of it is just never letting that fire within you, that when you see injustice, keep going and fighting against it.

Jessica Moorhouse 00:45:37 And it's difficult because you're going to get tired of continuing to fight. But that's really the only way through. And I know, you know, we've seen so much positive change over the past couple of years, especially with, you know, say, the MeToo movement. That really changed things for, you know, discrimination in the workplace on a gender basis. And that was just one thing that, you know, we're going to see more of these in the future, but we all have to do our part on an individual basis as a community and groups. And also, again, if you're on the other side of it, you have privilege to be an ally and to advocate and to be part of that change as well.

Nicole Garton 00:46:16 So if you could wave a magic wand, what would you change about financial literacy, the way it is taught and delivered?

Jessica Moorhouse 00:46:23 Gosh, I mean, one, it's complicated because on the one hand, people are looking for simple solutions like, give it to me in a sentence, what can I do to change my financial life? On the other hand, we actually need very tailored, specific advice to who we are as a person.

Jessica Moorhouse 00:46:41 So I was actually just talking to someone the other day, and she was saying that a lot of the financial advice out there that's been around for a long time, specifically with things like, should you contribute to your TFSA or RRSP first, which one? It was developed based off of assumptions on what the family structure looked like. And so a lot of the advice out there is, you know, choose your RSP first and then oh no, no. Or maybe it was like your to say first, I can't remember what the actual advice was, but besides the point, the advice was specific to understanding that, well, there's going to be a male breadwinner and they probably have a wife at home that is just a homemaker. And so we need to create financial advice for this particular kind of income system. And a lot of this advice still exists, even though things are different. There's maybe two income holders and they maybe the woman earns more. But now we're still getting the same advice that may actually not be the best advice for that particular situation.

Jessica Moorhouse 00:47:37 So it's complicated because again, I try to do my best to kind of simplify things. So it's easy to digest, but to really move the needle, we really do need different types of advice for different people, because nothing is cookie cutter like personal finance is personal, as cheesy as that, you know, saying is. But it's really true. And so, you know, we need to really kind of open our eyes to what do we need to stop saying? Or what do we need to kind of have some caveats for or just different points of advice for different people? So we're not just telling everyone the same thing, and then it's working for some people and it's not working for others, and we don't know why. Oh, it's because they're different people.

Greg Brennand 00:48:15 So for somebody just starting their journey to financial self awareness, bearing in mind what you just said, it's a simple first step for them to take in changing their relationship with money.

Jessica Moorhouse 00:48:30 You know, I always tell people if you really want to change your financial future and your relationship with money.

Jessica Moorhouse 00:48:37 It doesn't. It shouldn't start with money. It really should start with you and better understanding yourself and again how you connect with money, how money makes you feel, how money has played a role in your life. What are some of those significant events that you could probably easily pinpoint that had a really big impact on you, whether they were positive or negative? We need to understand your whole story up until now, because until you do that, there's no point in rewriting a new story if this is what I like it to be. Well, that's great, but we need to create a path starting from where you are at now to where you want to be, and it's going to be uncomfortable. You're not going to like it. I mean, believe me, I even struggled because, you know, the reason I went to therapy for this book, honestly, was just research based. I thought I was just going to get some information about their different practices and write about that in the book. It was really just like, I'm just going to, you know, write about what IFS is and EMDR, but that's it.

Jessica Moorhouse 00:49:36 But they're like, well, I need to get to know you a little bit more, so let's just do a session together. I'm like, all right, fine. And then ended up realizing, oh, I actually need to do this myself. And it was. And I was very resistant to it because I don't like being vulnerable as I talk a lot about in the book. But it was life changing. And so really getting to know yourself and doing things that make you uncomfortable so you can grow, because that's the only way you're going to be able to actually make, you know, some changes in your life that will be lasting.

Nicole Garton 00:50:05 So let's get concrete for a minute. What are a few of your favorite tools that allow people to stay grounded and aligned financially?

Jessica Moorhouse 00:50:13 Well, I'd say the kind of things that I mentioned before, having that spending plan. So knowing what money is coming in, what's going out. Having a really clear idea of that. A lot of people I find I work with have a lot of anxiety about their money because it's the unknown.

Jessica Moorhouse 00:50:28 They have no idea how much they have, how much they earn, how much do they spend? They just know. And so you create a worst case scenario of how bad it could be. And oftentimes it's not as bad as you think. And oftentimes you have more than you think you have in the bank. It's I've never had a client with like, oh, this is worse than I thought. It's always like, oh, okay, that's not as bad as I thought. And so having that will ground you because you know where you're at. You have clarity. And then to continue that clarity you again need to track your spending, your net worth, which I tell people uncomfortable. But it gets easier over time. And then you're going to probably look forward to it, especially that net worth component if you're saving some money, if you're paying down your debt, you're investing some money, you are going to see your net worth grow. It may be small at first, but then at least feels like progress.

Jessica Moorhouse 00:51:11 Even if it's like I'm up $100 a month, you're still up $100 compared to that month, so you are richer this month than last month. That's exciting. And then it continues to be exciting. I'd say the other component is one thing that really held me back, especially in my 20s, I would say, is because I started out being self-taught before I started doing some more formal training and I, you know, struggled with certain terminology or, you know, I remember I have some vivid memories of being in a group of people talking. And there were other, you know, financial content creators talking about something specific. And I didn't know what they were talking about. And I was so embarrassed to ask. And so I just didn't participate. And it really freaked me out because I at that time, like I thought I knew it all and there was a whole avenue. I never heard of those terms before. And so another element to kind of build your financial confidence, so to speak, is that financial education component.

Jessica Moorhouse 00:52:04 And so if there's terms you don't understand or strategies you don't understand or, you know, whatever the case is, honestly, the best thing is to do is going to the library, finding some great books. There's so many great books that have come out, I'd say in the last five years that from very diverse voices. So you don't have to just read the same books everyone's reading from 20 years ago, and you know, they may be great books, but there's so many great books that you can read with the same information, but they may be speaking your language a little bit more, or they have the same life experience and background as you, so you feel again, more comfortable and more safe in that space. To learn these questions I tell people all the time, this is the best time in the world to learn about personal finance, because there's so much access. When I was in my 20s, very limited access to this kind of information, it was all gate kept, and there was only people that worked in the industry that knew all these things.

Jessica Moorhouse 00:52:55 And now information, you can find it anywhere. Again, you got to be careful what you listen to. You know everything with a grain of salt. But it's never been easier to, you know, get a virtual book from the library, from a home and start reading right away. Or, you know, going on YouTube where there's lots of courses and things like that. There's so many great avenues you can take and that will do a world of good. For me. It absolutely was. I was always terrified about exploring certain topics, investing because again, there's a lot of jargon and terminology, and a lot of people that are in that world sound really smart, and I just didn't have the confidence at that point. And so I pushed myself to, to to study these things and read books on these topics and have those experts on my show and maybe ask a student question. And the more I learned, the more I realized, oh, actually, I did know a lot more than I thought.

Jessica Moorhouse 00:53:43 And or now I understand that that's not that complicated. I, you know, most of the time money is simpler than you think. There's just sometimes some terms that we don't understand, but they really just mean a simple thing. So educating yourself and kind of getting into that world a little bit more is going to help you a lot.

Greg Brennand 00:53:59 So what's next for you? Any upcoming projects, tours or classes you'd like to share with listeners?

Jessica Moorhouse 00:54:06 Well, this is this is my. As we enter this summer, my period of reflection on what am I doing with my life. Because this book really has been two years of my life. I started writing it in March 2023, and it feels and I'm still, you know, promoting it. I'm working on setting up some workshops at various locations in the fall, and so I've got some more events coming, which I'm really excited about. But what's next for me? I'm still trying to figure that out. I mean, I would love to write a second book, so I'm starting to just start to think about what that could look like because I realized, oh, I do like writing, apparently.

Jessica Moorhouse 00:54:41 And that was it was a lot of fun to write this first book and then just continuing to see where I can reach people. I want to continue making more educational videos on my YouTube channel and my Instagram and just, you know, seeing what I can do. One thing I will be working on this summer especially is studying for my shop exam. So I've been working on that since 2020. And it has been, you know, talk about a long journey. I've been doing this studying for this exam for five years, doing all the courses I need to qualify. And so that's something I'm going to be immediately working on this summer to take in the fall. Fingers crossed. I hate exams and tests. I'm not good at them at all. I'm really great at studying and writing essays, but I am not good at test, so that'll be a lot of fun.

Nicole Garton 00:55:25 You've been incredible. Where can audience members find more? Where can they find your book and where can they find you on the web?

Jessica Moorhouse 00:55:32 Absolutely.

Jessica Moorhouse 00:55:32 So yeah, my book is called Everything But Money: The Hidden Barriers Between You and Financial Freedom. You can find it anywhere. My website is JessicaMoorhouse.com. And if you go to Jessica Moorhouse.com/book, you can get more specific information about the book, future events that I'll be doing. There's also I recorded my Toronto event. So if you want to get a feel for what those kind of looks like, you can see that there. And also if you want to get some free book extras. So I've got some like worksheets, audio, video and stuff like that. There's some information on how you can access those as well. And you can follow me on YouTube. If you just Google Jessica Moorhouse YouTube, I'll come right up and Instagram at Jessica Moorhouse. And of course, I have a podcast myself called the More Money Podcast, so you can check that out as well. There's a lot of episodes, a lot of episodes over ten years. Start with the newest one and then work your way back.

Nicole Garton 00:56:19 Jessica, thank you so much. It's been a privilege to have you on.

Jessica Moorhouse 00:56:23 Oh, thank you so much for having me. It was so fun to talk to you guys. Thank you so much.

Nicole Garton 00:56:27 This podcast is for informational purposes only and should not be considered individual, legal, financial, or tax advice. Make sure to consult the advisor of your choice to advise you on your own circumstances. Thank you for joining us for this episode of Your Estate Matters. If you like this podcast, make sure to follow it on your podcast platform of choice.

Greg Brennand 00:56:50 Whether you are planning your own estate or you're acting as executor for somebody else's heritage, trust can help partner with Heritage Trust to protect your family, your assets, and your legacy.

Nicole Garton 00:57:00 If you'd like more information about Heritage Trust, please visit our website at Heritage Trust Now.

Greg Brennand 00:57:14 This podcast is produced by Podfather Creative.